Hi all,

So my horse has a case of white line.
My farrier has said to clean his hoof out well and then put thrush buster on twice every day.

I have been doing this for about 3 and a half weeks, and have yet to see any improvement.
So, I was wondering if anyone has ever used this white lightening stuff:

http://www.grandcircuitinc.com/products.asp?cat=57

I’ve read that it is a lot stronger than bleach or thrush buster so just curious if anyone has ever used it before.

Thanks!

A little confused, every horse's hoof has a white line. DO you mean white line disease?

Thrush buster is for thrush and won't do anything for white line disease, not sure why your farrier would say to use that...???

White line disease effects the lamellar bond, normally a fungus eating away the white line from nail holes or wall separation. Dealing with white with only topical products, you will never see complete results. The diet and trim must be addressed as well, as the diet is what makes the white line weak. Otherwise, you can soak hooves in anti-fungal solutions indefinitely, shoe, trim, or epoxy however you want and you will make only minimal progress with a case of “white line disease”. Keep in mind that that destruction of the lamellar bond can happen without clinical signs of laminitis or unsoundness. It takes a full growth cycle to grow out in the best of circumstances (6-10 months).
If a horse has a dietary insult every spring, when the grass fructans heavily increase and every fall because of acorns or crab apples, the hooves may appear to be constantly suffering from fungal invasion or “white line disease”.
I do regret the unsuccessful anti-fungal soaking programs I once put horse owners through, only to later watch as a diet change and natural trim completely fixed the feet.

Hope that helps

Melanie
www.healthyhooves.ca

oops, yes i do mean the disease!

I had a nasty case of White Line disease 9 years ago that went un noticed by a good farrier. The horse was off and on lame with it. I ended up having x-rays done and that's how we found it.

The x-rays showed the full extent including a 1 degree rotation of the Coffin bone. We sectioned the whole area which was the whole wall on the outside within 3/4 of an inch of the coronet band. The horse had immediate relief as the pressure was off.

I then scrubbed the area with a tooth brush and bleech twice daily. Dried it and applied a light mist of iodine. (Don't use iodine within 3 days of any x-rays) This was a severe case and was cleaned up within 2 weeks. I had the horse re x-rayed and there was no new damage, the old was cleaned up and the coffin bone returned to normal.

We had a new good foot on him in 8 months and he was good to go after a farrier change and a light 1/2 round Standardbred shoe on him for support.

Had the horse not kept showing this mysterious lameness I would have never gotten x-rays and had the disease continued up into his coronet band then his leg the vet said it would not have been good.

The trick to this is to scrub it clean, especially where it looks to have ended. Keep it exposed to sunlight(if we ever get much of it) Get an x-ray to know the extent, and have the damaged area totally sectioned away. You can go to commercial products but the old faithfulls work extremely well and are cheaper.

quote:

Originally posted by trainer:
Had the horse not kept showing this mysterious lameness
.

Can you describe the "lameness" I HAVE a mare with a mystery lameness...we can't pinpoint the area - shoulder? or foot? - no swellings or heat anywhere.
I am about to get x rays anyway.
thanks

Pride stables-White line and almost all hoof problems can be ruled out or pin pointed with hoof testers and a flex test. Depending on where the white line has separated in the hoof, the horse may be lame in many different ways(landing toe first, one side not fully weight bearing etc..)

Melanie
www.healthyhooves.ca

In my case we hoof tested first and Farrier felt he was hoof "tender" so we put shoes on the horse. He still had a tendency to want to gimp a little on harder footing. When it became a little more chronic I decide to have him checked by a lameness vet. He suggested to x-ray the feet-Thank God.

I would say he just showed a tender footed gimp. Not totally head bobbing but enough you saw and felt it especially when turning to the right as the oustside of the damaged right front foot could not deal with the demand on it.

Thank You!
I have had the same "tender" diagnosis...founder was suggested, but with no other symptoms at all, nor any of the causes being probable...
She has almost exactly the same lameness description you provided - but with pronounced head bobbing on a turn.
I have never had to deal with white line - so greatly appreciate the info, regardless if my mare has it or not.
X rays are booked for next week.

You're welcome Pride Stables- Better to be safe than sorry.

Because you may get a Coffin Bone rotation with a bad case of White Line disease it may present itself as founder.

Any other help needed you can email at grape.vine@sympatico.ca

quote:

Originally posted by trainer:
Because you may get a Coffin Bone rotation with a bad case of White Line disease it may present itself as founder.

I knew a mare that had really bad white line disease and the coffin bone started to rotate. Thankfully it only rotated 4 degrees so it wasn't a very bad case but if it wasn't taken care of asap the mare would have rotated even more making it over a 6 degree which can mean some very bad stuff. Catch it early before it gets really bad.

White line disease does weaken the lamina and the connective tissue around the coffin bone in all cases. The clinical definition of white line disease is when the hoof wall is not attached to the coffin bone in that area. 4 degree's rotation is pretty bad for only white line disease. I would get worried over any rotation.

Dr. Notzke’s research on Alberta's wild horse population shows that he has found 0 cases of white line in the 5 year study he did. He studied the dead horses they found as well(about 23 in the paper I read). Other people in the USA, Australia and Europe have found the same thing to be true-horses that live naturally with no sugars or processed feeds do not get this disease. I think it's neat.

Melanie

OK so horses in the wild are free roaming and have a huge variety of forage, roaming hundreds of acres. Captive horses are limited with living sometimes on small acreage. So how does a person avoid processed foods due to lack of natural forage?

In the wild they can find needed sources of vit/mins. Domesticated horses have to have this added to their diets or lack them. I am not a fan of sugar in the diet, and totally not a fan of molases laced feeds, but our hays/grasses alone will not supply what their bodies need. Therefore we must relie on processed feeds to make up what they cannot get "Naturally"

Hooves are 90% protien, working muscles require protien, growing horses require protien and the average first cut grassy hay will come in at around 6-7% protien. Add in legumes and you up the protien. That is not enough for pretty much any age horse.

I have done some training on Mustangs capture. After a few months they can actually be hard to keep weight on. However they do have feet of steel, but alot of that comes from covering miles of rocky terrain or hard ground. Our horses don't always have that available to them.

In my case of white line, the horse was at a friends for driving training. He pulled a shoe and drove the clip up into the white line and that allowed the bacteria to have an entrance. And from there grow.

I'm all for Natural on the hoof end as the cost of shoeing alone can break a person. But a vet has researched the fact that a lack of protien in the diet can lead to weak, soft feet.

Hmmm - one can't compare horses living "wild" with a domesticted horse...they are not able to forage thru miles of terrain to both find the delicate balance of nutrients they require and not eat where they poop - their manes/forelocks/tails are cut ... allowing sun, bugs and dirt easier access ... They are stalled for sometimes half a day (12 hours) and then they are judged and labled for their "attitude" and "vices"... I have never heard of a wild horse jumping a series of 3' jumps...It is unnatural for a horse to stand on 3 legs (farrier) unless he has an itch ... No wild horse would allow a predator to jump on his back...
We ask a whole lot of these awesome animals - the least we can do is feed them correctly.
IMO Sweet feed (molasses) does not qualify.
I think this has become another topic.

I'm not sure where I said horses should be fed hay only. Natural feeding does not include hay only... I was just sharing information I had on white line disease.

I certainly didn't see any "natural" preaching going on here. All I saw was a tidbit of info someone thought was interesting and wanted to share it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by melaniem:

). Other people in the USA, Australia and Europe have found the same thing to be true-horses that live naturally with no sugars or processed feeds do not get this disease. I think it's neat.

THis is what I was replying too. I'm not saying anyone is pushing natural anything. What I asked was what is to be fed to achieve a proper balanced diet. Procecessed feeds are basically anything in a bag, sugar also comes in many forms. Basically oats is about the only thing not processed which is the most unbalanced feed you could feed plus gives a horse a sugar rush, so what was recommended for feeding in this study? What are they considering to be fed naturally. And if it helps prevent White Line which I think more and more horses are dealing with than not, than it may be information well needed by many readers of this post including the person who originally posted.

I'm not looking to argue I was just asking. Sharing of information from studies not all of us have been able to read is benificial to all.

I've used White Lightening - I liked it. I used it to stop fungus. It stops the fungus from going higher... you have to let the bottom grow out.

The vinegar makes it smell though!

Thank you for the advice everyone, the ferrier is comming out on thursday for him, so I'll have to wait and see, I ended up sticking with his orders of thrush buster, and we'll see what happens.

On another Farrier related note, my horse has mannaged to completely rip off his back chestnut, he also has a cut above.

But should i be conserned, or will it grow back on its own in time?? I will be cleaning it daily and putting on fura-free to keep the bugs away.

My coach assured me he would be fine, but it just looks so gross i wish i could do something about it,
any ideas?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: quonking,

Just have to wait at this point, if he's given the clear from your coach then take comfort in that. Once it has grown back, keep his chestnuts moisturized and soft and peel them down regularly. Start on the other 3 for now, Hooflex gobbed on would help, Vaseline, etc. to supple them and then peel 'em.

ok thanks!