I noticed that too!! LOL I just didn't know if I was missing something! Also didn't it look like they where pushing harder with the the shoe one?? This would have been better to see on an X-ray video and a 'pressure machine' (like in Ikea LOL)instead of two people pushing down on a log/w/bolt and a 'damaged' foot. Just my 2 cents. (and they could have drained out the blood. YUK)
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Posts: 107 | Location: North Gower | Registered: September 06, 2008
That test would be very hard to prove correct becuase no hoof is the same so if they used 2 hooves it wouldn't be totally accurate and by using the hoof twice makes it weaker for the next test.
Cutting off the toe like this does weaken it by about 20-30% and using the same hoof for both tests would weaken it to some degree. Now I am not saying shoes make coffin bones explode and break in three places like in the video. It does show the impact forces very well.
This school has many videos with all sorts of hooves-shod or not. I am glad more research is going into working mechanics of the hoof. I find the results very interesting and they need to be shared.
The best I comment I have heard from a farrier of traditional shoeing, is have you seen any Top level performance horses in say Jumper or Dressage using different methods yet. NO!
And that video is a very poor representation of the foot, there are a lot of variables when I horse has a rider on it's back.
There are many top level horses that are barefoot, you just need to look around. http://www.thehorseshoof.com/barefootperf_jump.html CIC** eventing http://www.thehorseshoof.com/barefootperf_event.html The racing industry has lifted it's ban on barefoot horses June 2008. Dr. Isbell “A number of trainers in Northern California are starting to train their horses barefoot. There are an increasing number of trainers doing that (and those horses are) working as well or better as they did when they had shoes on. We do know from research work that the bare foot is better able to utilize the internal shock absorption system of the horse, which does help to take some of the stress off the legs.†http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/07/barefoot-racing-in-california-state.html
V lace that was a very interesting video, would like to see if we see those shoes sometime soon. If we haven't seen them already. Going to have to ask my farrier about those.
I doubt you will see the yasha shoe anytime soon...they are $65US a pair and farriers charge $300-$500 to set these! Plus these shoes are very hard to shape and to nothing for the peripheral loading issue.
ha! i tried to watch that when i was eating... it didn't work...
i totally agree that bare foot if possible is the way to go.. but it doesn't always work that way.. my old mare could only bobble from the barn to the sand ring because she had to walk on gravel... now with shoes she's fine.
Posts: 136 | Location: ottawa | Registered: October 20, 2004
Nighthawk-the trim has to be correct for barefoot to work. Not all trimming methods are the same (some go against the working mechanics of the hoof)and if the trim is not right, the horse will not be sound on rocks. No horse has yet to be born with shoes..so the can all be barefoot and remain sound with the proper help.
The racing industry has lifted it's ban on barefoot horses June 2008. Dr. Isbell “A number of trainers in Northern California are starting to train their horses barefoot. There are an increasing number of trainers doing that (and those horses are) working as well or better as they did when they had shoes on. We do know from research work that the bare foot is better able to utilize the internal shock absorption system of the horse, which does help to take some of the stress off the legs.†http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2008/07/barefoot-racing-in-california-state.html
i just looked at the original vid, and yes, they are pushing longer on the "shoed" hoof, never mind that the shoe isn't even nailed on. Also a fact to consider (can't see it from the view) is is the hoof from the same horse, as in using one hoof for one test, and another for the other? or 1 hoof for both?
I like barefoot myself, but also like protection if needed (depending on the horse itself, or conditions in which we are working it) but pls, experiment scientifically! (ie, cover all bases when conducting).
Posts: 134 | Location: Royale Equestrian Centre | Registered: October 15, 2007
I got caught up in a 'new fad' shoeing technique a while ago...BAD idea...my horse was lame for months!! Totaly wrecked his movement...can you say HACKNEY! ARG! It took months for his toes to grow back. It was horrible. PLEASE BE CAREFUL! This is not a 'life style' you can just jump into...check out everything BEFORE you jump in. Changing farrier techniques can be hard on you horse..I just thank the farrier gods I only did the front feet first! 'Barefoot' maybe very different than what I went through but I don't know. I have heard the same warnings about the 'barefoot' method too...just a little FYI...
Posts: 107 | Location: North Gower | Registered: September 06, 2008
Just as there is no ONE method of shoeing, barefoot has 6-12 "styles", some are more drastic than others. The Strasser method for example is very aggressive on the toe and sole, while Rameys method does not involve touching the sole. Horses have been barefoot longer than we have been nailing on metal rings on them ,so how can it be a fad? I am not against protecting a horses hoof, by way of boots, glue on shoes, cuffs or sole guard etc...I am against nailing into a hoof for "protection" or "traction" due to the internal damage it does to the hoof.
I think it it up to each horse owner to educate themselves on what would work best for your horse, yet many listen to second hand info and go with whatever is "in" at the time. More and more information is available on new materials and methods and it is great.
I'm NOT saying that you need to change what you do for a living. All I'm saying is, it's not my bag. My horse had his feet done in the 'Cytek' method, by THE leading proffesional in the area (having this done was not my idea but thats a whole other story). My horse was realy screwed up. I'm just a little scared now to look in to other alternatives when it comes to 'foot options'. I will do some research though...thank you for starting this conversation I think it brings up alot of questions.
Posts: 107 | Location: North Gower | Registered: September 06, 2008
It is unknown who invented the first horseshoe. Early Asian horsemen used horse booties made from leather and plants. During the first century, the Romans made leather and metal shoes called "hipposandals". By the 6th and 7th centuries, European horsemen had begun nailing metal shoes to horses' hooves. Around 1000 AD, cast bronze horseshoes with nail holes had became common in Europe. The 13th and 14th centuries brought the widespread manufacturing of iron horseshoes. Hot-shoeing, the process of heating the horseshoe before shoeing the horse, became common in the 16th century.
Horse shoes are really not a fad either
Posts: 667 | Location: Merrickville | Registered: August 31, 2005
Originally posted by melaniem: Nighthawk-the trim has to be correct for barefoot to work. Not all trimming methods are the same (some go against the working mechanics of the hoof)and if the trim is not right, the horse will not be sound on rocks. No horse has yet to be born with shoes..so the can all be barefoot and remain sound with the proper help.
people aren't born with orthotics either, but some people need them.
Posts: 136 | Location: ottawa | Registered: October 20, 2004
Orthotics are needed in some cases-of course but with modern materials we do not need to nail into the hoof. Nails conduct cold into the interior of the foot, allowing bacteria and ammonia a pathway into the white line causing white line disease, and limiting circulation because they fixate the hoof to a rigid shoe so it cannot expand along with a misplaced nail can fracture the coffin bone.
A lot has changed since the 6/7th century in the way we train and care for horses..most barbaric idea's are gone, yet nailing metal into a living horse is still accepted. I think it's time to change that thinking, even if only slightly.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed-great thread!
Originally posted by melaniem: Nails conduct cold into the interior of the foot, allowing bacteria and ammonia a pathway into the white line causing white line disease, and limiting circulation because they fixate the hoof to a rigid shoe so it cannot expand along with a misplaced nail can fracture the coffin bone.
Out of curiosity, do you know where I could find documented cases of where a misplaced nail has fractured the coffin bone?
Hrm. It seems pretty obvious *why* the coffin bone broke.
The shoe is wayyy too big and allowed the frog to sink below a safe level. It's a matter of weight bearing physics.
Had the shoe been the proper size, and thus offering proper support, and the hoof nailed on said shoe, the coffin bone would have been fine.
Physics 101...
I am seriously not against barefoot, heck all my horses are barefoot and will remain barefoot as much as possible. I really wish the barefoot proponents would offer undeniable and scientific evidence of the "evils" of shoes rather then posting flawed evidence such as this video. Really, it is a disservice to the cause.
Peripheral loading with the hoof wall being the main support for the hoof played a key role in breaking the coffin bone. It was ultimately the force of the test that broke it.. The test is not perfect(something not easy to do by a personal person without funding and real scientist's/labs) and the final part of the test where the bone fractured was not most important part. The loading forces shown with the frog supported at the start is great information.
